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Matt Feret (00:00):

Hello everyone. This is Matt Feret, author of The Prepare For Medicare book series, and welcome, to another episode of The Matt Feret Show, where I interview insiders and experts to help light a path to a successful retirement.

Matt Feret (00:17):

If you're listening to this, put a face with a voice, I've got a YouTube channel, and you can find it on the show homepage at themattferetshow.com, or just search for it on YouTube. Thanks in advance for liking, following and subscribing.

Matt Feret (00:31):

You know, anytime you use a search engine to research insurance or financial products, these days, your screen seems to spit out what looks like thousands of opinion pieces and random blog posts, ads, 1-800 phone numbers, eye-catching warnings, top 10 lists, random landing pages, and a whole lot more. Over the years, it seems like it's gotten increasingly difficult to sort through all of this stuff online, to find high quality, objective and expert advice. It's one of the reasons I wrote my first book, Prepare For Medicare, The Insider's Guide, and that's also why I'm currently working on my second, Prepare For Social Security, The Insider's Guide. It's also one of the reasons I launched The Matt Feret Show. I provide curated content to my listeners, you and viewers.

Matt Feret (01:19):

All this information search websites spit out these days, seem to be just full of noise. And noise, that's just frankly, getting louder and louder, to the point it's drowning out the true experts who should be at the top of the search results. Paul Tyler is a great example of that, he's an annuity expert, and the chief marketing officer of Nassau Financial Group. He's also the third Paul I've had on the show this year, I don't really know how that happened, but it did. Fun fact, Paul was the 17th and 18th most popular name for babies born in the 1960s and '70s. That's according to the Social Security Administration. And as Paul points out, the Social Security benefits you're eligible to receive starting at age 62, operate a whole lot like an annuity.

Matt Feret (02:05):

This episode of The Matt Feret Show will give you an insider's view into annuities. What they are, how they fit into your retirement plans, your 401ks, how to buy one, when to buy one, how much money you need to buy one, and a whole lot more. Enjoy.

Matt Feret (02:20):

Paul, welcome to the show,

Paul Tyler (02:21):

Matt, thank you for having me.

Matt Feret (02:23):

So give a quick overview for the audience about what you do, how you help people and how long you've been doing it?

Paul Tyler (02:31):

Sure. Yeah, chief marketing officer of Nassau Financial Group, and I tell people we're 180 year old startup, almost 180 year. Nassau Financial Group itself, is about five years old, and we've been fortunate enough to acquire a couple of companies with very, very long legacies. In fact, one of our companies, Matt, insured Abraham Lincoln. Can you imagine?

Matt Feret (02:55):

No, I can't imagine.

Paul Tyler (02:57):

The underwriting was suspect, but we did honor the claim.

Matt Feret (03:03):

It was a life insurance policy?

Paul Tyler (03:07):

Life insurance policy. So we have an interesting legacy going back years, and years and years, but bringing to it, with a new group of people with a lot of new energy, and some great leadership of this company, looking to do great things for another 200 years.

Matt Feret (03:26):

Let's start with the basics. I mean, just pretend I don't know a thing about an annuity, except for the fact that I know it's a financial product, and I've heard the news it can be in my 401k soon, or now, or later, but I'm also worried about things like surrender charges, and I can't get my money out. So let's start, just basics, what is an annuity?

Paul Tyler (03:49):

All right, you made me dive into that pool. An annuity, everybody owns an annuity, Matt, and you know what that annuity is, it's called Social Security. We've all been paying into this thing, we've taxed all the way up till we stop work. And when you turn 62, you start taking Social Security. Now the date has changed, it's 60, I guess it was 69 and a half, but now it's creeping up, based on when you're born, but you must take Social Security. And it is an annuity, meaning it will pay you a guaranteed sum of money until you pass away, or your spouse passes away. So, that really is annuity, people. So people say, what is it? Well, that really is it. Well, any more complicated? Well, no, it's not.

Paul Tyler (04:44):

Are there a lot of different types of annuity on the market? Absolutely, yes. Are they complicated? You bet, many of them are, but the simplest format, that's it. You give us money, and we take, not only investment risk, but also the mortality risk. Mortality risk in annuity is probably the most powerful engine behind an annuity, meaning that some of us will live a very long time. Matt, you may live to the ripe old age of 99, I may die in my 70s. I probably didn't give as much money out, but you know what? We took care of you. And that's the idea behind an annuity, is we're pooling our risk. We know that certain people will live longer than others, and that from a societal standpoint, we're better off taking care of the people who do live longer, so that they're taken care of. How's that? How did I do?

Matt Feret (05:39):

No, that's great, that's a great parallel. So again, my very limited knowledge, I think there are two types, fixed and variable. True, or not true?

Paul Tyler (05:53):

Boy.

Matt Feret (05:56):

Sort of? Is there a sort of?

Paul Tyler (05:58):

Talk to my compliance people. When you start talking about types of annuities, it sounds a little like a pharmaceutical company, unfortunately, sometimes.

Matt Feret (06:09):

Oh really? I'm sorry.

Paul Tyler (06:10):

Those are two very good ways to look at it, fixed versus variable. A fixed annuity, at the end of the day, means you're sharing. If you put dollars into that annuity, you're effectively sharing them with the assets of an insurance company. If it's fixed, meaning, if I bought an annuity and knocked on the door of the insurance company, proverbial door these days, is there any money inside there that's earmarked for Paul Tyler? And the answer is no, it's part of a pool. Variable insurance is, yes I can knock the door to the insurance, and there will be a drawer I can pull out with money that's set aside as Paul Tyler's money. So, and that variable piece means that, yes it's an insurance contract, but there's something in there that I specifically own. Now, that's one way of looking at it from an accounting perspective.

Matt Feret (07:09):

Okay. Yeah. Tell me, so if I were to buy one, if those two, and again, this is my limited knowledge, so correct me if I'm wrong, and I know there's a lot of rules behind what can be said and what can't be, but this is all hypothetical. So fixed gives me a return on my money that I give the insurance company, or the annuity carrier, a fixed rate, call it 2%, 3%, whatever the number is. And variable could give me less, could give me more, it's not fixed. Is that true? I mean, is that essentially it?

Paul Tyler (07:44):

I think it's a good way to start thinking about it. I tend to explain these, or when people start to ask about the types, we really talk about what are the needs you're trying to meet? And saying needs can be met with a fixed or variable contract, in a lot of circumstances. I'll give you a couple examples, but really the most important thing before you go down this annuity rabbit hole, is to do a financial plan, understand what your cash flow needs will be, and more importantly, what could they be? I mean, I have, "My spouse died. I had some surprise expenses. I had healthcare expenses." Matt, you're an expert on that area. "I found myself in a hospital and my insurance didn't cover all of the expenses that I incurred."

Paul Tyler (08:41):

Some of these expenses have nothing to do with the hospital. People think about their hospital care, well, what if you have to rent a house and bring family close? What if you need to make changes in your lifestyle? How are you going to fund it? So what are the purposes, and then what level of guarantees do you want on the income you're going to get? There were some people that say, "I want to know what that check is going to be. If I flip a switch, when I flip a switch 10 years from now, I want to know, Paul, exactly to the penny, what I'm going to get paid."

Paul Tyler (09:17):

Other people say, "Well, maybe I'll use it, maybe I won't. Maybe I'd like to see more accumulation, where you're describing the variable kind. Maybe I'd like to see the account grow a little bit, but have the option to pull money out."

Matt Feret (09:34):

Okay. So it sounds like my very amateur, and perhaps, uninformed understanding of it, is way more technical, and you mentioned in there, if you have a financial plan. So talk to me from a consumer standpoint, from somebody listening in the audience, "I'm interested in it. I understand the concept. Is this something that I should go out on the internet and click around?"

Matt Feret (09:58):

So for example, you said healthcare, Medicare, in my book, and people I talk to and just help, they're like, "I need a prescription drug plan. What should I do?"

Matt Feret (10:09):

And I just say, "Go to medicare.gov, type in your drugs, type in your pharmacy, hit enter. They'll spit out a list. Pick one you like. Go." It's not easy, easy, but it's easy. The other ones are more complicated. When you talk about Medicare Advantage or a combination Medicare sub, so that's my area of expertise, but I would recommend in that area, go talk to an independent agent. Go do a little more homework in a couple of different spots.

Matt Feret (10:35):

So, if I'm a consumer, and I'm thinking about an annuity as part of my financial plan, or just in general, is this a product that you would recommend I go to a company and say, "I would like to buy an annuity." Or is it more of a part of you need a guide, you need someone, or some company, to guide you through the process to get what you're really after?

Paul Tyler (10:57):

Matt, you hit the nail on the head, people need help. And people come in all shapes and forms, some people I've talked to, love to read the books, love to pull out the insurance primer. Same people who get sick and probably know more about the potential condition than their doctor does, their InstaCare. Others show up, and say, "I don't feel well." And they know their physician on a first name basis.

Paul Tyler (11:25):

Neither is right, the question is, "What's right for you?" And more importantly, "Are you getting the right type of advice?"

Paul Tyler (11:32):

So I think of it as a spectrum, people say, this is another question I get, where you have to challenge the question a little bit, and say, "Well, Paul, is an annuity a really good investment? It seems like the fees are really high." Time out.

Paul Tyler (11:47):

"Matt, annuities are not investments, they are insurance."

Paul Tyler (11:51):

"Paul, but you're selling insurance." No, they're not investments, they're insurance. Yes, they have some benefits that feel like investments, but they're not. Really, this is protection, it's like your house, what's the ROI, Matt, of your home insurance? Did you get a good return on your home insurance?

Matt Feret (12:10):

I never really want to use it. I don't ever want to use it.

Paul Tyler (12:13):

Right, you don't want to use it.

Matt Feret (12:14):

Its like life insurance, you never really want to use it. You know you're going to, you just don't want to.

Paul Tyler (12:19):

Exactly. Now I think unlike life insurance, annuities can actually help you today. I'll talk to a couple of needs where I think annuities really work, and I think something people need to remember is, annuities really are qualified money. So qualified, think of it like your 401k, you put money in, but you really can't take anything out without a penalty until 59 and a half. So, if I took and said, "Let's look." You were steering me this way, fixed versus variable, let's start with the need that insurance annuities can conserve is. "Matt, I got my Medicare supplement insurance, I paid for it. I've got some life insurance that I still haven't tagged for my family, when they need it. I've taken care of my basic expenses. But I still have $50,000, or less, $20,000 sitting in a bank account, earning what? Nothing."

Matt Feret (13:18):

Nothing.

Paul Tyler (13:19):

Nothing. "Geez, should I put money in a CD, Matt?"

Matt Feret (13:23):

Nothing.

Paul Tyler (13:23):

I'm not going to earn anything. Insurance actually is a very simple fixed annuities. We call them, these are horrible names, MYGAs, multi-year guaranteed annuities. Do a lot meet the same needs? And this is a very careful, regulatory approved way, many of the same needs of bank CDs. They're not bank CDs, they're not guaranteed by FDICs, they're guaranteed on the strength of insurance company, but we insurance companies today, actually, because they are insurance, not investments, actually you can get a higher interest rate for a fixed period of time, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 years, a period of time.

Paul Tyler (14:09):

And this all depends on individual contracts, a lot of them will allow you to take 5%, 10%, out each year, without a penalty, if you need liquidity, if you think you need expenses. And they will pay you interest each year, generally, you can take that interest out if you need to spend it. So you can actually take that money, and start to take out some of the interest, or you leave it there, until the period's up, and then either let the money roll over to another period, or take it out and put it someplace else.

Matt Feret (14:42):

Wow. That's way different, even if you click around the internet, you get those two small categories of fixed and variable, but it sounds like they're just, literally, completely different types, or versions of both that can be customized?

Paul Tyler (15:01):

Well, yeah. Now, let's take it to an extreme, an immediate annuity, or single premium. Income SPIA, we call them, income annuities. Which is, "Matt, write me that check for $20,000, $30,000, $40,000. Here's a payment that's going to start today, and I'm going to pay it until you die. You will never get your money back from us, but I'm going to give you the highest guaranteed income, because I know this insurance company, I don't have the risk that you're going to come and want your money back in a year."

Paul Tyler (15:35):

So two very different extremes, high interest. Well, really long-term payments for the rest of your life for a piece of money now. We've got a lot of products in between, that do a lot of different things, create optionality, because, "Maybe I have this money, I'd like the guaranteed option, Paul, but I'd like that option to be able to decide when I take that check. Maybe I'm not going to take that check. Maybe I think I might need that income stream later, this is my insurance plan. But if I don't need it, I can get that money back. Or if I leave it there, could I pass this on to my heirs? Like a life insurance policy? Or maybe I can pass it on without paying taxes?"

Matt Feret (16:24):

Very individualized. And I'm hearing, part of a financial planner piece.

Paul Tyler (16:34):

It really is. And a lot of people don't know what a bank CD is, Matt. I mean, a lot of people don't understand what a bank CD is. Now explain a multi-year guarantee, even something very simple like this, can take explanation.

Matt Feret (16:51):

Yep. How much money do I need, or should I have to even think about an annuity? I mean, I can open a CD with, I don't know, maybe $100, been a long time since I've opened a CD. Again, to that interest rate piece, but is this only for people with $100,000 or more? Or you mentioned $20,000.

Paul Tyler (17:11):

A lot of the annuities have low minimums, ours is $5,000, some I think there's some as low as $2,000. I think it would be wonderful if we could take this down to $100 at some point in the future, because I think that would encourage people to save more with insurance, we're not quite there yet as an industry.

Paul Tyler (17:29):

It's not a lot, I do think you typically, and I think this is where I think what you're doing, what you're doing with your books, I think we need, as an industry, should be bringing this message to people who have much smaller amounts of money in their bank account, because as you know, my refrigerator broke, or actually, it was my washer went out, my wife called John, the local repair man, he walks in my house, the first thing he does, he says, "Ah, you got to buy a new one."

Paul Tyler (18:04):

"Oh, thank you very much."

Paul Tyler (18:05):

"Here's your bill, $150."

Paul Tyler (18:06):

"Thank you." You can't really get people to come into your house, or virtually, without writing some amount of money, and I think there's an enormous opportunity to bring the advice you're giving to people who maybe, don't have enough money or have the resources to get the assistance like you, or other financial professionals could deliver to them.

Matt Feret (18:30):

Or they think they don't have enough money.

Paul Tyler (18:32):

Exactly.

Matt Feret (18:34):

So, let's go to that piece next, if you don't mind. Annuities and 401k plans, talk about that a little bit, because that's new.

Paul Tyler (18:42):

It is. And the Secure Act opened a really interesting opportunity for people to save more for retirement. I won't go into the history, I know you've got some really good information in the work you've done on the history of it. But about two years ago, the Secure Act was passed, and 401ks are great, however, they just haven't made up for the pensions they're replacing. If you look at 401k balances today, yes, participation rates are going up, but it's shocking how low the balances are in a lot of people's accounts. And people don't understand that, "It feels like I've got a lot of money in this account." But when you start to say, "Well, if I really need to live off that when I'm retired, how much is this?"

Paul Tyler (19:36):

So the Secure Act came to be, and they said, "Look, when Paul gets his 401k statement." I think starting this year, I'm interested to see what this looks like. The 401k sponsor has to say, "Paul, if you were to turn this into income when you retire, here's how much you could make on this." Now, there are a lot of rules of thumb, rules of thumb are as good as they are. I think a lot of people heard about the 4% withdrawal rule, I think a lot of these rules were created and popularized, when the interest rate environment was radically different from it is today. And unfortunately, I think the 4% rule may be more like 1.5% To 2%, if you talk to people like Wade Pfau.

Paul Tyler (20:24):

So to help people, encourage them to save more, and make it easier for companies to help their employees, congress made it easier for the planned sponsors to put annuities inside their plan. So, it's easier now, if you work for an employer, for the employer to offer an election where you actually put money into what's called a QLAC. And more and more insurance companies are investing a lot of money to fulfill that need. Why would you put an annuity inside a tax qualified plan? Well, an annuity, back to original discussion, offers more mortality pooling. So your dollar can actually go farther than you could ever go if you tried to invest it yourself, in terms of removing that risk of outliving your assets. So, I think we're just at the beginning stages, Matt, but great question. And I think 10 years from now I bet everybody has one of these in their 401k plans.

Matt Feret (21:27):

Thank you. So where is a good place online, to find good objective DIY advice? I mean, again, I draw the parallel just from my background in health insurance and Medicare health insurance. It seems like nine out of every 10 websites are trying to get you to call them to have you buy something. I mean, it's just hammer hammer hammer, but there are a few good sites that aren't trying to, quote unquote, sell you something. I mean, if they are, it's buried, but it's not like a lead generation tool. Give me a couple of sites, or a couple of places, or even a couple of people online that you follow, or you would recommend, to just dig some more in, if I'm interested?

Paul Tyler (22:08):

Yeah, absolutely. I think in terms of websites, you're right. Look, everybody needs to be able to make a living if they're getting put good quality information up. I think the number of media sites, major media sites, I think do a really good job, they've connected with some very good writers. Forbes has very good stuff on financial planning, Inc. CNN, believe it, or not, I think has some really good stuff, as does Fox News, have a good stable of writers who are focused on the field. Investopedia, they have a very good set of writers, who know the space very well.

Paul Tyler (22:57):

I think if you're on the web, look for the same information three or four different times. Everybody's either selling an ad, they do have affiliate agreements with companies, to either connect people with advisors, or promote products. And it's not necessarily a bad thing, knowledge without action, I'm not sure if there's value. So I think it's a great thing a lot of these sites try to connect people with products or people that will help them save more money.

Matt Feret (23:32):

Well, so do I, you want to have someone help you narrow down the field, you've got 1,000 companies, and 10,000 versions of annuities, or whatever product you're talking about. Help me narrow it down? It's this concept of over choice? How do I get help narrowing it down?

Paul Tyler (23:51):

Exactly. For real students of retirement, I would say Mary Beth Franklin, terrific. She knows the Social Security system inside and out, and provides more advice than you ever imagined. I think in terms of annuity, mortality planning, Wade Pfau, really great name, has written a couple of books. Bruno Caron, who's an analyst at AM Best, has written a couple things. I can give you some lists, if you want to share them with readers.

Matt Feret (24:21):

I'd love to.

Paul Tyler (24:22):

I don't think it's easy, this is one of these topics, where I think education is important. You need to understand what you're going to do. More important, to your point, you need to find somebody who you can trust, who speaks your language, and you can really connect with. I was just out with some of our advisors, this week in California, and talked to one woman who said, "First thing I do, Paul, is take my clients out for lunch. And some of them look at me weird."

Paul Tyler (24:49):

And they say, "Why are you doing this?"

Paul Tyler (24:50):

She says, "Because I don't want to go in and pitch them something if we can't relate to each other. Our communication style has to be the same. We have to share the same values, same connections. Otherwise, it's a waste of time for both of us." So I think, don't rush into any of these plans, but take time, read, go deep if you really want to, talk to a lot of people. A lot of people will know this, and you'll find somebody. Somebody who speaks your language, and somebody you can trust.

Matt Feret (25:21):

I sometimes get flyers in the mail, that say come to this place and have dinner and listen, is that a good way to meet people, experts to do that?

Paul Tyler (25:32):

It can be, for me, that's not the way to do this. I have sat through a few of these condo sales meetings that I was dragged to by other nameless people in my family, but they can be very good. Some of these programs are excellent forums, and again, the advisors are looking for ways to find people, and start to engage them in this process, because most people, Matt, unlike me, don't wake up 7:30 in the morning, and start worrying about annuities.

Matt Feret (26:09):

Exactly. Look, we do it in Medicare, too. I mean, the Medicare seminars have been around forever, you just come and you learn, you sit, you have a cup of coffee.

Paul Tyler (26:18):

You come, you learn, I think you need to understand that look, please don't come just for the food, come to learn, because people, as you say, put a lot of hard work into these seminars, there's a lot of education in here, it's a good opportunity, but just know, find the person whose right for you. And, Matt, whose right for you, is not for me.

Matt Feret (26:41):

What questions did I not ask about annuities, that you think I should have? What else did we not cover, that the audience would want to hear about?

Paul Tyler (26:50):

I think the urgency, Matt. Do it today, do it for the people you love. Why do I have life insurance? Not for me, it's for my family. Why do I have annuities? It's for my family, too, because what happens when I can't walk, when I have to be in a nursing home. Do I want to be a burden to people? In fact, a number of studies to show that, if I receive checks that are guaranteed, as I'm in retirement, I'm happier, but do it. Do it today, the more you put off insurance, the more expensive it gets. It's true for annuities. Do it today, don't put it off. Find somebody, if you're like me, and you've always got a pile of stuff sitting there next to you, get somebody to help.

Matt Feret (27:40):

Makes a lot of sense. Paul, how do I find more about you? How do I find you online? How do I find your company? What are the details?

Paul Tyler (27:47):

Yeah. LinkedIn is great. Paul D. Tyler, there, fortunately, aren't too many of them out running around. Our company is Nassau Financial Group, we do have a lot of resources on our site, educational resources, you mentioned, I didn't want to be too self promotional.

Matt Feret (28:04):

No, that's fine, do it.

Paul Tyler (28:04):

Nfg.com, we've got a lot of videos, and we in fact, Matt, have probably 12 hours worth of courses on annuities. These are very technical courses, for people who really want to understand how these things work, but they're free, no obligation. I'm not going to be calling you, Matt, if you take one of my courses, but you can reach out to us, and we can certainly connect you with people who can help.

Matt Feret (28:31):

Paul, thank you so much for your time today. It was a really great chat.

Paul Tyler (28:36):

Likewise, Mike. Matt, thanks for the invitation.

Matt Feret (28:40):

You can find Paul all over the internet. He's even got his own annuity podcast aimed at financial advisors and insurance agents called, That Annuity Show. Yes, that's another 1970s tie-in. Check him out on LinkedIn, and of course, at Nassau Financial Group.

Matt Feret (28:56):

Also, be sure to check out the show notes and websites discussed during this show, themattferetshow.com. And of course, please, subscribe to the podcast, on your podcast platform of choice. I'd also, again, appreciate it, if you'd subscribe to The Matt Feret Show YouTube channel, which you can get to through themattferetshow.com, or by searching for it on YouTube. Until next time, to your wealth, wisdom and wellness. I'm Matt feret, and thanks for tuning in

Matt Feret (29:28):

The Matt Feret Show, related content, publications, and MF Media, LLC, is in no way associated, endorsed, or authorized by any governmental agency, including the Social Security Administration, the Department Of Health And Human Services, or The Centers For Medicare And Medicaid Services. The Matt Feret Show is in no way associated with, authorized, approved, endorsed, nor in any way, affiliated with any company, trademark names, or other marks mentioned, or referenced in, or on, the Matt Feret Show. Any such mention is for purpose of reference only.

Matt Feret (30:00):

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Matt Feret (30:27):

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