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Introduction to Dr. Mitchell Yass with Matt Feret [1:09]

Matt Feret:

Mitch, welcome to the show.

Dr. Mitchell Yass:

Thanks for having me, Matt. Really happy to be here with you finally after a few months of delay.

Matt Feret:

Yeah, no, I'm looking forward to this. So, tell everybody what you do, how long you've been doing it, and how you help people.

Dr. Mitchell Yass:

So I am the creator of the Yass Method for Pain-Free Movement. I've been doing this for over 30 years. I developed this method of diagnosing and treating pain. I began to do that as a student in my final semester of school in which you're suddenly having affiliations and you're treating people. And through things that happened to me, I became aware that my education did not prepare me properly to diagnose and treat. And so I became caught up in this understanding that I needed to interpret symptoms versus just accepting diagnostic testing. And that led me to understand how to properly diagnose and treat pain. And as I said, I've been doing this for 30 years. I've written three books on the subject. I've done a PBS special on the subject. I've treated people in 15 countries through Zoom based on this issue. And I believe that my method was given to me, or at least the desire to learn it through a higher power. And as a result, I believe that this is here now to allow people globally to know that the answer to resolving their chronic pain exists now on earth and can be utilized to resolve their pain and return them to full function.

Matt Feret:

I have so many questions about this topic because it is one that people, I mean millions of people live with chronic pain, millions of people live with episodic pain. We've all read about the addiction, we've all read about pain centers, and I want to get into all of that. But I also want to get back to what you just said right at the beginning. We did have to push this off for a bit before we started. Before I hit record, you started to talk about that. I think it's an interesting story. You want to share it?

Dr. Mitchell Yass:

Sure. So for people to understand about me that this is not a career, this is not my profession, this is what I believe. I was put on a quest to understand this through a higher power. Now, when we go back to this idea of when I was in my last affiliation, when I was in my last year of school and I was doing my affiliation, you are in front of people for the first time and the physical therapist treats the person based on their education. I believe God asked me to ask a question that apparently no other physical therapist asked at the time, the person was standing in front of me and something said to ask them, could you point to where your pain is? Seems like a logical question. Yet nobody seems to ask this question.

Matt Feret:

Now, I was going to say that would not have surprised me, it would seem like something logical.

Dr. Mitchell Yass:

It’s not part of the curriculum to ask the question. So what happened was when they would point to where their pain was, it was not the place that they should experience pain. If the MRI identified structural abnormality was to cause pain. So if you have a meniscal tear at the knee, you should have pain on either side of your knee. But when I said point to where that pain is, it was around the knee cap, that's not the place of meniscal tear can cause pain. So by definition, that pain could not be coming from the meniscal tear. So this confounded me. So I said to myself, well, if I know that the MRI doesn't appear to be establishing the cause, then maybe I have to look at the symptoms the person is experiencing to understand what tissue is in distress. And through this process of starting to look at symptoms to identify, cause I found in more than 98% of cases, the cause of pain was muscular, which muscular causes do not show up on MRIs, which is why they remain in distress. Even when you have been treated based on your MRI, I identified structural abnormality. So for 30 years I believe that I've been used by a higher power and that this method that I was given to learn comes from him. Now, about eight to 10 months ago, something happened to me, which is quite extraordinary, a tumor developed on my cheek. And so everyone can see where is it? There's the camera, there is my tumor.

Matt Feret:

And if you're only listening, well, how would you describe that?

Dr. Mitchell Yass’ Tumor and Recovery [05:41]

Dr. Mitchell Yass:

It's a massive tumor that basically started at my cheek and covered my entire right ear. It was circular and it was so big that basically between the edge of the tumor and the side of my ear, I could not even get a Q-Tip in between it. That's how big it was. Okay. So now the process begins of how to address this. And I'm told to go to the Mayo Clinic and I'm told that they can't tell if this tumor has entered the external canal of my ear. So therefore that is perceived that my ear is cancerous. So they're going to take my ear and the tumor two weeks before the surgery is scheduled, which is November 9th at the Mayo Clinic. I am trying to process this, why God would you give me this tumor? Because I believe that everything happens because it's supposed to happen and everything is as it is as he commands it. So I'm assuming there's a lesson to be learned. And over a three day period of thinking about this, it comes to my thought process that what's happening is I'm not going to deny throughout even 25 years or almost 30 years of this, I've questioned why would I be the one chosen to take on such an incredible burden as the person who's supposed to end chronic pain. And I've gone through a lot of traumatic events in my life through this process. I've gone bankrupt, divorced, lost a decade with my child. So it caused questions as a human being. I believe what I heard for three days was God saying, I am going to now make the world know that this method exists in the coming months, and I could not have you questioning whether in fact you are the arm of me and that you are there to make this be available globally to people as they need it. So I needed you to get my attention. So we put the tumor there.

Matt Feret:

Oh, that's quite a way to get attention. Yeah,

Dr. Mitchell Yass:

Yeah, exactly. And so for three days I thought about it and finally after three days, it was, to me, I can only say that is as clear a message as I got. I felt absolutely sure that's what he was saying to me. And so I finally succumbed and submitted and said, I promise you I will never, ever, ever question you again. I am your arm. Whatever happens going forward, no matter what kind of work is involved, no matter how strenuous this seems, I am in for the long run. I am your arm. We will resolve chronic pain through this method. And the tumor began to shrink. And what happened was I had a client here and he said, Mitch, I think the tumor shrunk. And I'm like, I mean I think you'd being nice because there's no such thing as a tumor like that shrinking. But after he said it, I started every day looking in the mirror and I could see more and more of my ear. And I was so screwed up mentally and traumatized from this. I thought that the tumor was making my ear grow and really what I was seeing wasn't the tumors drinking, but my ear growing for at least two or three days. I literally was so mentally distorted. And then I continue to see, no, no, this is really getting smaller. And then this is called the tragus, for the first time I see it. So now we are three days before surgery, I try to call the surgeon, he doesn't get back to me. I contact the oncologist. He said, come in immediately tomorrow we get a PET scan. He starts measuring. He's like, absolutely, you are correct. It is shrinking. And he said, as far as I'm concerned, what I think happened is somehow for whatever reason, the blood supply died and therefore the tumor is shrinking. He said, I would suggest to you don't get the surgery. Let's go another four weeks. We'll do another PET scan and we'll see. So this is now about six, eight weeks since, and I can show everybody if they can, who's ever seen and that saw it. You can see that the tumor is gone. Basically there's a little bit of skin variation, but basically that tumor is 100% gone. Yep. I see it. And my oncologist keeps looking at me and saying, what did you do? What treatment do you use? As if I would do chemotherapy or radiation behind his back, which would be lunatic. I mean, how crazy could that possibly be?

Matt Feret:

He thinks you flew to Belize.

Dr. Mitchell Yass:

Exactly. So I basically just say the same thing I say every time, God, God did it. Now I've been there a second time and he brings his entire staff in because now I'm a complete oddity. So now he brings this whole staff in, is like, everybody come here, come here. Look at his face. And everybody knows of the tumor. They'd seen the pictures, alright, Mitch, tell him what you did. Tell him what you did. And I just say, God. No radiation, no chemotherapy, you did no treatment. And I'm like, I swear to you, I promise you this was God. So I feel a very, very strong affinity to God in a way that's even greater than I felt prior. And because I promised him you can't go back on your promise to God, I now never question. I am prepared mentally. I've actually got a certification prepared anyway. But as awareness develops, I am ready to certify people and have this made available. So as the demand grows, we will have the proper number of practitioners and everyone who seeks this who is in chronic pain will have this ability to resolve their pain. And we will do as God has asked me, and we will end the chronic pain epidemic.

Matt Feret:

Well, before we move into that chronic pain epidemic, let me just first say I don't know how to respond to a miracle because it sounds like a miracle to me, and I've never gotten into religion on this show, but you called it a miracle. Who am I to disagree with that? That's amazing. And if for those of you that didn't see the picture of you're just listening, we're not talking a little melanoma here on the forehead. What would you call that? Two inches thick? Three four inches?

Dr. Mitchell Yass:

Oh yeah. I believe it actually was. Yeah, it was actually close to three inches thick. It was 2.8 something thick and it was something like three inch diameter. I would imagine.

Matt Feret:

It looked like the size of a biscuit.

Dr. Mitchell Yass:

If I was wearing a earmuff, it looked like an earmuff.

Matt Feret:

Very good. Yeah, it looked like some of the headphones I've got on the right. Crazy. Well, I'm glad you're here. I'm glad we're doing this.

Dr. Mitchell Yass:

Yes, I am too.

Matt Feret:

More importantly than anything, I'm glad you're recovered or on the path or somewhere there. I'm glad you are tumor free. That's amazing.

Dr. Mitchell Yass:

Thank you. Thank you. Appreciate it.

Matt Feret:

I don't know how to follow that up with chronic pain, but let's try. A miracle hopefully about chronic pain.

Dr. Mitchell Yass:

I mean, to be honest, I hope so. I need people to believe there's an alternative. I need people to be willing to go beyond the cultural bias that the MRI is correct and that surgery is needed every time it's find some structural variation. And I'll be very honest with you, if it means talking about a tumor and somehow I'm the one guy who miraculously had it disappeared, that maybe people question maybe there's something to this guy and we should listen to him. So be it. Trust me, I'm all good with it. Whatever has to happen, I'm here. I want to be a part of this and help anybody possible so that they could have the life they choose. So maybe that's what it's there for.

Matt Feret:

And let's jump into it. So chronic pain, tell me about your method. Tell me about how your approach has evolved over the years and where you are today.

Dr. Mitchell Yass’ Perspective on the Root of Chronic Pain [13:23]

Dr. Mitchell Yass:

Sure. So let's just give a little history of chronic pain because it's now been 40 years and people don't realize that prior to those 40 years, which is the mid to late 1980s, chronic pain never existed in the history of mankind. This is where people first have to understand that something different happened in the mid to late 1980s. So you go back to the Roman period, the Greek period. Any other time in American history, chronic pain has never existed.

Matt Feret:

Okay, so what happened in the chronic pain? Do you mean chronic joint pain? Do you mean rheumatoid arthritis, pain from injury that never got repaired, or how do you mean the pain's never been chronic pain, anything until the eighties?

Dr. Mitchell Yass:

So when we talk about chronic pain, the separation between acute pain and chronic pain, acute pain that runs greater than three to six months is now called chronic pain.

Matt Feret:

Okay?

Dr. Mitchell Yass:

So that's the only difference is the timeframe. Now, there were people who have had pain due to injury, any of the things you described, but you can't talk about half the world's population having pain that's greater than acute until the mid to late 1980s. Certainly an older population after they retired maybe had pain, maybe some small group had rheumatoid arthritis. But when we talk about the issue of chronic pain today, you're talking 130 to 140 million Americans, one out of every three and roughly one out of every seven people in the world, 1 billion people suffering from chronic pain. Meaning pain that has been experienced greater than three to six months. That has never happened in the history of mankind. So you might've had small pockets here, not the population, not the general population.

Matt Feret:

Is that due to the increase in chronic pain or is that due to the increase in the monitoring and the surveying of chronic pain?

Dr. Mitchell Yass:

It's due to one primary concept. The advent of automation, technology, computers, phones. So what happened was if you look prior to the mid to late 1980s, 99% of the population were doing manual multi-directional jobs, occupations. So, I'm not sure, you look a bit younger than me, but if I was younger and I wanted to go out and play with my friends, we went out and we played flat tag football. Now if I'm a kid, I play John Madden football, I don't go out, you can see different there. So I'll give you another. So if I was a farmer, I would have to go on my tractor and I would have to look at all the irrigation pipes and look for any breaks and sprinkler heads so that my crops would get watered properly. Now there are sensors, and I sit on my ass looking at a computer screen which sends a red flag if a sprinkler had breaks. So you could look at what's the number one job today it. So what percentage of the population is doing something associated with the computer beyond information technology? What about social media? What about creating platforms, advertising, all this stuff? A vast majority of population now is somehow integrated into the computer. The way people get information, you used to go to the library and look up books. There is no more library. You got it all on your computer. Okay? That all occurred, that vast change in social culture happened in the mid to late 1980s. So all of a sudden you have this massive population. Before it was just retired people. They would sit on the rocking chair on the porch. They went from very active to not those people had pain and they were told it was rheumatism, but it wasn't. It was actual muscle weakness. They just didn't know it. Okay, now you have your 20-year-old IT person who sits at his desk for 10 or her desk from 10 to 12 hours a day. What they don't realize is they just became that retired 90-year-old person in terms of the strength of appropriate muscles that allow you to perform manual activity, normal going to the bathroom, walking up a flight of stairs, kneeling down, doing any activity, recreate, playing tennis, pickleball, anything like that. If you don't use muscles, they weaken. Even if you try to strengthen them, if you don't use them, they weaken. So there are two primary muscle groups, the gluteus maximus, which is your above muscle, which helps you stand upright. And the gluteus medias muscle, which gives you balanced side to side, those are the muscles most apt to lose strength from sitting. They're also the muscles most associated with activity. So here you have weakness developing. So when people then do decide to do activity, they strain and illicit pain. So the chronic pain epidemic begins in the mid to late 1980s as an acute epidemic. There is an influx of people before it was 80 and 90 year olds, now twenties to 90 year olds are now seeking care for this pain that suddenly everyone's happening at the neck, at the shoulder, at the back, the knee. What made it become chronic? What was part of that automation that developed in the medical field? The MRI. Now for most people, and I'm sure you don't know this, the MRI was developed, the technology was developed to find tumors in the brain. That's what it was done. Go back, anyone can look up the history. What was the MRI developed for to find tumors in the brain? So think about it, it's a million dollars a machine to build and what percentage of the population actually present with some sort of symptoms that would warrant you saying maybe I have a tumor in the brain. You should go get an MRI. It's not many. So I don't know who, and I don't know how some magical situation arises where a secondary usage is provided that suddenly the MRI, you've got this massive influx of people who are now complaining of pain. Well, we could use the MRI to identify the cause and it starts identifying herniated discs, arthritis, pinched nerves, meniscal tears. And since that's found where the pain is experienced, it is asserted to be the cause of the pain and begins to be treated. So now you have people who are being treated based on structural abnormalities identified on the MRI. Now whether it's surgery or any other thing, surprisingly with all this treatment, no one's pain is decreasing. In fact, for many people it's increasing and it's increasing beyond three to six months. So now we have this massive influx of people who are now having chronic pain. We shift now to the early 1990s and now we have this massive amount of people who have chronic pain and we are trying to use the methodology that we were told should identify the cause and resolve it, and it's not happening. We have to go into a different direction. Since we can't identify the cause and resolve the cause, we need to start looking at ways to mask their symptoms. Lo and behold, opioids are developed.

Matt Feret:

Oh, I gotcha. Okay. So instead of the physical therapy instead of the muscle balance, they did that but also added in on painkillers.

Dr. Mitchell Yass:

So what I do is it's important to understand, and I'll explain the differentiation. What I do is not physical therapy, although it's muscle based. Physical therapy is part of the medical system. When you go to a physical therapist, you go based on a referring physician's referral that is typically an orthopedist or neurologist. They got that referral and that diagnosis from the MRI. So you're seeing the physical therapist based on the MRI finding of a structural abnormality. So they're attempting to treat you for a structural abnormality, which really doesn't make any sense anyway, but that's why that treatment typically will never work. They're trying to say, oh, I'm treating you for a herniated disc. Well, how could you make a herniated disc on herniated unless you surgically repair it, right? If you have a meniscal tear and meniscal tear cause pain, well you would have to do surgery to make it not be torn. So going to the physical therapist actually reinforces why that person still has pain and kind of is the adjunct to pushing them towards a surgery they never need. So that got us to the mid to late, the mid nineties, which is where you now have your opioid epidemic and everybody, there's been a bunch of miniseries about Purdue, the company that made it and how evil they were. But Matt, let's think about it a second. I make a gazillion painkiller pills. I now say, okay, for me to make money, I need people to take it. So I go to people and I say, here, here's a painkiller. But if nobody had chronic pain, wouldn't they say, screw you. I'm not taking your pill. I don't have pain, so why would you give me a pain killer? So what you need to understand is that the opioid epidemic would've never existed without the chronic pain epidemic. That's what everyone has to recognize.

Matt Feret

Yeah, because it has to be prescribed.

Dr. Mitchell Yass:

You have to have a supply demand; before you can give a supply, you have to have developed a demand. But what you want to understand is why does the government and society allow them to go after Purdue? It's a perfect scapegoat because if you really went after who the cause is, whoever allowed the MRI to be falsely presented as an ability to identify the cause of pain, then you're talking about a third of the population has a case. A third of the population in the United States, once out of every seven people could say, I'm in chronic pain because you misdiagnosed me because you used the technology that was never going to be able to identify my cause. You know how many I treated hundreds of people who were suicidal from pain, came into my office and said, I'm putting a bullet in my head. I'm telling you now this part is why I became a little wacky, was people literally stood in front of me and said, I'm putting a bullet in my head. I have been on earth. I've lost my family, my job, I have no reason to be here anymore. If you can't fix this, I'm better off out.

Matt Feret:

That's not something I run into every day.

Dr. Mitchell Yass:

It's highly unusual and I can assure you, I'm probably one of the few people who have actually treated hundreds of them on my website, on my YouTube page, Dr. Mitchell Yass, there is actually a video of Kathy Sweeney and she's straight out telling you she was going to off herself, and she had a young five or 6-year-old child, she was married, she couldn't take it anymore. And I was her last resort. And sure enough, she's perfect. Everything's all good. But imagine worldwide how many millions of people have committed suicide because they just couldn't take it. How many people are now on antidepressants because they're so depressed from their pain that they can't live, but the medical system can't see what to do about it because they can't establish why they're having that pain. Right? They've done everything. So that's kind of where we find ourselves. Lots of people having sustained pain, being told that they've done all the appropriate treatments, that the diagnoses are correct. And finally, you kind of fall into a couple of camps. Either you are told stay on pain management for the rest of your life, which is kind of scary for a lot of people.

Matt Feret:

I have a friend whose brother is basically that. It's pretty scary. I listen to him and I go, I'm no doctor and I'm no pharmacist, but I know how many pain pills- a number more than one is a lot. Yeah, but he's in that category. Sorry, go ahead.

Dr. Mitchell Yass:

And so by the way, I want to make sure that no one's confusing this. When we say pain management or opioids, we're talking heroin. Let's not be confusing. Let's not parse words. Opioids. It is a form. Heroin, morphine, it's all the same thing. You're giving people, even in their eighties all the way down to their teens, you are giving people heroin. So don't be surprised how addictive it’s that one camp. The next camp is those who will not take that, and they are told you're going to have to live with the pain for the rest of your life. Then the final group is kind of morbid and scary to think they're going to tell those people, there's nothing wrong with you, your pain's in your head, which is so disingenuous. I have worked with so many people who have been told that just look into their eyes, do these seem like these are crazy people? They would give their left arm to be out of pain. They want their families back, they want their lives back. I have had people have breakdowns, emotional breakdowns in front of me. This is real to them. This is not in their head. And because I understand how to listen to their symptoms and interpret what tissues in distress, I reaffirm to them, yes, yes, this is real. This is not in your head. This is really your body with a tissue in distress, eliciting that emergency distress signal of pain. And you just have to figure that tissue out, establish how to resolve that distress, distress of that tissue and boom, your pain will go away. And that's kind of what this method is all about.

The Yass Method of Pain Management with Dr. Mitchell Yass [28:07]

Matt Feret:

So talk to me about the method. How is it unique? Sure. What do you do without giving away your secret sauce I guess, but how is yours unique? How do you approach things?

Dr. Mitchell Yass:

I think the best way to do this is, let's go with different body parts and I'll explain how I do what I do versus how they do what they do. And then you could see where the ending would be and which ending you think the average person would prefer to be on. So we'll do it that way. Here's a classic. I have pain here. This is where my pain is. So, I'm pressing in my upper trap region, my neck. I'm talking about pain on both sides of my neck and it impedes me from doing my work on the computer or I can't read. If I stand too long, I get pain and it makes it so that I have to lay down immediately and I have to take pain medication and it's just impeding my ability to function. What would happen with that person if they went to a doctor? They're going to get an MRI, the MRI. The high probability is that it's going to show some sort of variation in structure at the cervical spine, a herniated disc stenosis, which that term just means narrowing. The space between two vertebrae has gotten narrow or a pinched nerve. It's not a nerve by the way, at every level of the spine, nerve roots come out, nerve roots form nerves away from the spine. That's important to understand. So if someone's saying that you have a pinched nerve that's a hundred percent fallacy, it's just impossible. There's no nerve that attaches to the spine. Nerve roots come out. Okay? So they're going to find a herniated disc stenosis or a pinched nerve and going to this is the game. You had your pain, then you get the MRI. The MRI is obviously never performed before your pain. So you're going in with pain, some sort of pain. They find a herniated disc and because the herniated disc is found for the first time at the time of your pain, it is asserted to be the cause of your pain.

Matt Feret:

Well, it seems kind of logical, doesn't it? I guess. That is, I wouldn't necessarily question that. If I, I'm listening to you and I'm going like, well I don't know if I had a really chronic pain in my neck. Doc says, I don't know, let's get some x-ray or some MRI on it. It seems reasonable. Oh look, you're going to pinch nerve. It's cause the pain. Let's fix the pinched nerve. I'm following, right? We're both following seems, I guess from my bias and my background, seems okay. Nobody's going like, you know what you got to do, Matt? You want to fly to Belize and you ought to get traction a thousand feet underwater. I mean so far it doesn't sound crazy, right?

Dr. Mitchell Yass:

Right. So now let's start to break it down. So what they're doing is they're using something called correlative theory or junk science. I'm going to teach you this from a science perspective. What they're saying is that if something happens at the same time as something, I can say that one thing causes that. That's called correlated theory of junk signs. It's the equivalent of saying if I open my front door when the sun rises, I could say opening my front door causes the sun to rise so I can bring you to my front door and every day I'm going to open that front door and you are going to see the sunrise and after six months you're going to say, wow, that guy's got incredible power. He makes the sunrise by opening his front door. But you would laugh and you would say, well clearly that's illogical. That is the general theory being used. So here's the next question for you said you think, well that sounds logical. So here's a question for you. Do you know or don't know whether that herniated disc was there before your neck pain began? Do you know that or not? No clue. Nope. So you don't know that? Nope. So have they proven that that herniated disc began at the time of your pain? Because if that is the cause of your pain, the pain begins at inception of distress of the tissue. So you have to assume that if you began, your pain began three weeks ago, that herniated disc would've had to have happened three weeks ago.

Matt Feret:

Okay, I'm following.

Dr. Mitchell Yass:

But you don't know that because no one ever proved that to you.

Matt Feret

No, because no one routinely gets a random MRI.

Dr. Mitchell Yass:

That is correct.

Matt Feret:

Just to check my spine out, right?

Dr. Mitchell Yass:

Correct. So that's your first problem with the logic is that there's no confirmation that it may have been there before. So that's a problem and that's something I would strongly want you to think about because if it was there before, it couldn't be causing your pain. Alright, let's take the next form of logic. If I tell you herniated this cause your pain, what would you expect to find in people who don't have pain?

Matt Feret:

No herniated disc.

Dr. Mitchell Yass:

No herniated discs. 1994 the first study performed on people with no back pain showed 78% of the population have bulging or herniated discs. 78%. The conclusion of the study was that in fact positive findings on MRIs are typically independent variables having nothing to do with the cause. That's 1994.

Matt Feret:

I don't think I've heard that before.

Dr. Mitchell Yass:

Yeah, I can actually show you the study. It's been around forever. It's been written up and it's always been used. So remember that. So right now, based on what I just told you, if herniated disc pain and people who don't have pain have herniated disc at a level of 70%, how could you say your disc is causing your pain? That should put that into a massive level of confusion and questioning. Alright, here's the last piece of the puzzle. I just said your pain is running down your upper trap region. They're telling you it's coming from your spine based on what they said. If you want to incite or make your symptom worse, you have to press on the cause. Where should you have to press to make that worse? If it's coming from a herniated disc.

Matt Feret:

The herniated disc.

Dr. Mitchell Yass:

Correct, on your spine. So I can have anybody on the planet press on their spine from here to eternity and they're not going to be able to shoot it down their upper traps. But if I take my thumbs and push into their upper traps, I'm going to make them scream to all hell. Okay? So what I did was I pressed on the spot where the pain is and I created their pain. That is known as point tender pain, meaning the tissue I'm pressing on is clearly the tissue creating it. So by proving that your pain is point tender, I just proved it isn't referred and therefore it couldn't be from the disc. The actual presentation of your symptom has just proven it couldn't be from your disc. It's absolute. So what that shows is that that disc has probably been there before and in fact is independent to the cause of your pain. So I just proved by interpreting your symptoms and knowing logic that what they told you was completely false.

Matt Feret:

Unless of course then you treat the pain and the pain persists, then it could. It could actually be that it is causing the pain. So if your attempts to relieve the pain or unsuccessful, then what?

Dr. Mitchell Yass:

Let's go back talk. That's where you start? Yeah. Let's talk about their attempt to resolve your pain. So what are they going to do? They're going to give you an epidural nerve block and they're going to play a game with you Again, a game they're going to say, so if we give you an epidural nerve block and you don't feel pain, that proves that the pain was that disc and now we're going to want to do surgery. You're missing a little problem with the concept of the epidural nerve block. Do you know what's given to a woman who's having a pregnancy who can't take pain? Oh, that's right. It's an epidural nerve block and it makes her not feel pain. So are you saying the cause of pain of pregnancy is a herniated disc the pregnant woman isn't feeling because there's this huge thing coming through a vagina that in fact it's actually a herniated disc. That's what you want me to believe? That doesn't sound right to me. So why do you understand is that an epidural nerve, block box pain of any tissue below the level that it's given? That's the reality of it. So that's probably a lie. What they told you that you had your pain, you could have been muscle, it could have been a nerve, it could have been anything, but since it blocks symptoms below that, you just don't feel it. So that's not a good answer. And by the way, all medications cycle through your circulatory system and are ultimately brought to the liver and destroyed and eliminated. So anytime they try to give you a medication or a nerve block or something of that nature, at some point it's going to wear off. That's when the person suddenly realize, oh my god, my pain is back and it may be worse than ever. So that's their first attempt to address it. Then they'll try chiropractic physical therapy and all these other conservative things and you still have that pain in the upper trap and finally they're going to play the game with you, the surgery as a last resort. Now if you understand psychology, you would realize that's called coercion. I didn't theoretically and scientifically prove to you that the cause of your pain was from that disc and therefore you should get surgery. I played a game with you and I said, look, I'm a good guy. I don't really want to do surgery with you, but I'll try all this other stuff. And if it doesn't work though, you are going to have to agree that you are going to get surgery. It's my last resort and I coerced you into get good surgery. You never agreed to, you just did it because you were coerced into it. That's why most surgeries are performed.

Matt Feret:

Coercion. Do you think it's overt coercion? Where do you think it's just the medical training or both?

Dr. Mitchell Yass:

It's a combination. It is basically education. And what do you expect this guy to say or this woman to say this is what they do for a living. So what has always been my concern is the fact that the failure rate for back surgery is somewhere around 70-80%. So my question to the surgeon is how do you keep sending people for surgery when 70 to 80% of the population keep coming back to you and saying, hey, I'm no better if not worse, but that's a separate issue. This is me, that's them. They got to deal with that.

Matt Feret:

Yeah, I'm trying to make sure that we're not saying all doctors are pushing surgery.

Dr. Mitchell Yass:

No, no, no. They're doing as they are trained irrefutably by the way, there is also the issue of liability. And I've talked to doctors about this and if what is considered standard of care is to get an MRI, then they're going to do it every time because if they don't and something goes wrong, they could be sued. So there's also the issue of liability. You got to do standard of care and if you have pain in your neck or your back or your knee standard of care, get an MRI. Okay, so that would be what would happen to you. So eventually maybe you get two or three back and cervical fusions. And by the way, cervical fusions are now done from the front, so they're going to have to get rid of your esophagus and everything else and it's horrible. And every person I've ever seen who has cervical fusion from the front, I say, turn your head, this is how they turn their head after the surgery. This is how they turn their head after the surgery. Not good results are not good.

Matt Feret:

Okay, so now let's go to you.

Dr. Mitchell Yass:

Good.

Matt Feret:

Yeah, go to you.

Dr. Mitchell Yass:

Yeah. So now we have this upper trap pain and what I noticed about you, you described, and here's a big one, if it was a herniated disc that is considered a structural abnormality. If you had a kidney stone, would that be intermittent pain or would that be continuous pain regardless of your position, action or anything else? It would be continuous.

Matt Feret:

Yeah, I was going to say I haven't had one thank god yet. It’s continuous I think.

Dr. Mitchell Yass:

Right, you have palpitations of your heart. Does it matter what position you're in? Does it matter whether you're sitting standing up or is it going to be continuous? It's continuous. So what you start to understand are structural abnormalities create continuous symptoms that very, very little in their intensity. You just told me that your pain is when you're sitting, standing around, but if you lay down or you get into a recliner, my pain goes away. That's interesting. That sounds more like it's activity based. Some activity is created not by your kidney, not by your spleen, not by your liver, but I think it's muscle. So the description of what brings your symptom on and makes it go away, you just reinforced irrefutably right off the bat with that one question. It's muscular. Okay, so I know it's muscular now I'm going to look at you from the side and I'm going to see that this is how you stand and everything else. So you have an alteration in your posture. What I was presenting to Matt was that your head is forward and your rounded shoulder, very, very common with that area of pain. So what I see is that you have altered posture. So it looks like you have an activity-based problem, which is muscular and you have change in posture. Posture is the culmination of the pulls of muscles, good posture, strength and balance, bad posture, weakness or an imbalance. So what I start to do is put two and two together and realize that while you're having pain here in the upper trap region is because your chest muscles, your front shoulders and biceps are stronger than the upper back, the back shoulder and tricep. And as a result they've shortened and rounded your back, rounded your shoulders, and drawn your head forward. What that does to the muscles that supports your head actually causes their connection from the shoulder to move farther away from the spine. That changes length of the muscle and it loses its ability to create force. So it strains and elicits pain. So you have a postural variation caused by an imbalance of muscle between the front of the upper body and the back. So if you came to Mitchell Yass and got the Yass method, there'd be a little massage of the pecs, massage of some of the muscles in the upper back region. You would start a series of four to five exercises on your first session at completion you would see 80 to a hundred percent reduction in symptom and your posture would be dead vertical. Your ear, your shoulder would be directly over your hip and you would say, I don't understand. How'd you make that go away so fast? And that would be it.

Matt Feret:

Okay. That sounds simple, but it's not.

Dr. Mitchell Yass:

When you understand the principle, it is actually quite simple. It's pure logic. I was taught logical analysis as a boy, I was taught to be a magician and that's how I developed this method was analyzing things and then putting the appropriate processes together.

Matt Feret:

Sorry. No. Why is it that your system is so unique in that? I mean I know what you were saying earlier, there's a legal component, there's a training component, there's a normalization of pop a pill, I get all that. But in terms of the actual process and progress is yours a not done everywhere? Why is yours so unique?

Dr. Mitchell Yass:

So I'm going to say something, and this is going to really kind of upset people, but it is the reality. Everything you said is true, but there's one more factor. One more factor that makes the existing system which fails so miserably allowed to continue to progress. And that is that the medical system is a fee for service basis. What that is to say is that outcome is not a factor in payment. So if you go to a restaurant, you ask for a perfect steak and they char it, you walk out the door and you don't pay. If you go to the mechanic and you say, fix my engine, you turn the key on and it doesn't start, you don't pay. You have pain in the upper trap region, you get a five level cervical fusion, your pain is worse after than before They get their $350,000.

Matt Feret:

Fee for service. That I am aware of. And of course there are efforts and have been to change that.

Dr. Mitchell Yass:

Sure, but that is outcomes based. That is a huge factor. I want people to understand this. They go to the physical therapist, they give you a page of six stretches to do or something. By the time you're finished, you see that you could do the very same thing at home as you're doing there. So you're like, why am I going there? Why am I signing this sheet? And the reality is that as long as they get paid for you to go there and do the same thing you're doing, I just want someone to explain to me what is the incentive for that to change. If they outcome is not associated with payment, why should they tell me why they should change?

Matt Feret:

I get it. It's fee for service. That's what it's you said it.

Dr. Mitchell Yass:

And it's the entire medical system. So when people, your question is such a valuable question. Everyone says the same thing to me. My god, you've got the answer to resolving pain. Why aren't more physical therapists doing this? Well, if I got paid to put a hot pack on your back and make you go onto a bicycle for three minutes and walk out the door and get paid versus having to have the understanding as to how to properly diagnose what this is in distress, which is unbelievably complex to do this, figure out its muscle and then know which muscles and how to strengthen them and get that person out of pain, then teach that person how to take the responsibility and do it accurately so they can then be in control of the situation. I think you'll take the hot pack and bicycle as long as you get paid.

Matt Feret:

What are you doing to, I know what you said. You spread the word and then in the beginning, right when we were talking about your miracle, I'll call it that, it's a miracle, when you're talking about your miracle and your mission is to double back down to what you've been doing for 30 years and get this out. What do you want to do? What do you want? The populate people listening, what do you want them to know? Do you want them to be active in their healthcare and question authority, question their doctors seek you out, seek someone like you out, not be afraid of other opinions. Like how should people listening right now go? Okay, interesting story. I don't know where his clinic is. Maybe I can't get to him. I don't know if he's good, bad, otherwise how do I check him out? What do you want people to do? What's your ask for the people listening right now or your advice?

Dr. Mitchell Yass:

So let's just hit what you talked about very briefly. I am located in Jacksonville, Florida. That is where my facility is. But if you can't get here, people should know since 2015 when I did my PBS special, I've been doing zoom sessions and I can have the same effects whether in zoom or in person. I've treated people in more than 15 countries using this method. It is highly effective. You don't have to worry about whether you'd need to see me in person or not. It's simply not true. Now, there are certain things I won't put people to start saying you on your fifth revision of your hip replacement, can you please start to say to yourself, maybe this person doesn't know what they're talking about. Can we finally start taking responsibility as human beings? I understand you don't have a medical degree, I don't need you to have a medical degree. I just need you to have a little bit of logic. I just need, you went to the chiropractor, you are on your 57th adjustment, you are six months in and you're still having the same pain. Can you finally say to yourself, maybe, listen, we're not disparaging the individual. I'm sure they're very nice people. I'm sure these people would love to be helping people, but their education hasn't allowed that to happen. That doesn't mean you should give up all your money and lose your life because you can't hold your head up. You need to be responsible. So that is the first thing I say to people, be responsible. And what I want people to do, this is where it comes from. If someone says they're going to treat you, you can accept that treatment unless they say, I know what tissues in distress and they got to be able to show this to you. I know this based on the presentation of your symptoms and this is exactly what I'm going to do to resolve the distress of that tissue. If someone gives you that narrative, get the treatment. If someone can't give you that narrative and just says, see MD or chiropractor, see, believe me, if I was you, I'd walk out that door because that's a red flag. They don't know what they're talking about. Let me make this clear to you. I've done lots of stuff. My third book is translated into Chinese. I got plenty of credentials. I'm telling you now, don't believe me because Mitchell Yass said it. I want you to listen to what I'm saying and realize is this logical. If it's logical, that's what you should follow. So just realize I hold myself to the same level I hold everybody else. The other big thing that you have to really come to right away is look at your symptoms. Someone's trying to tell you that it's a structural abnormality. You better be coming back with me and saying, oh, my pain is very consistent and it's roughly 24 hours a day, seven days a week. And it doesn't really matter where I am standing, sitting or doing anything. But if you say that your symptom is incited by activity and when you stop the activity diminished, you just acknowledge your problem is muscle. Now you could say to yourself, so how come no doctor has identified that to me? Why the chiropractor or the physical therapist identified that to me? Here's the great lesson to learn. Muscular causes don't show up on MRI. So remember I told you about that strained upper trap? Show me the picture that shows the muscle strain you paint at your kneecap and it's because your quadricep, your front thigh muscle is shortened and it's pulling excessively so your kneecap doesn't glide properly. Where's the MRI showing the shortened quad? Your glute meat on one side is stronger than the other and it's causing your pelvis to be unbalanced and higher and that's leading to pain in your back or somewhere. Where's the imbalance glute me? Gluteus medias muscles. Where does that show up? It doesn't. So if you are seeking care within the medical system and you have a muscular cause, it's pretty much impossible for that to be identified. Mitchell Yass is telling you over 30 years and 17 to 18,000 people I've treated, I have shown that in more than 98% of cases, the cause of pain of people I've treated is muscular even when they all showed up with their MRI structural abnormalities. So it's such a different understanding. If someone's going to say to me, you think what you're saying is a little odd, of course I know it's odd. I've been dealing with this for 30 years. I've been trying to create awareness for 30 years and it's a war, but it's a war worth fighting, man fighting. These people are sitting there. Everybody knows someone who's had a failed surgery. Everybody knows who's someone who stopped playing golf or tennis because they can't. Everyone knows someone who's lost that job because they can. Unfortunately, a lot of people know people have become divorced or lost relationships with kids because they can't function. You know how many 60, 70 or 80 year olds have said to me, you have no understanding of what it's like that I can't get down on the floor and play with my grandchild. You have no idea how disheartening that is to me, that's disgusting that that can happen. This is 2024, but that's what's out there and there's got to be a reason. And for the average person, they only see themselves in their chronic pain. See, they don't realize that they are part of hundreds of millions of others. And that in fact, with that understanding, it shows there's something systemic going on. And so I'm out there and I'm plugging away. I have a YouTube channel, Dr. Mitchell, it has 340 videos, something like that. You could go into the search, pick anything from headache to plantar fasciitis, and I'm going to tell you about it. I'm going to give it to you in the average person, lay person ease. So you could understand this and if it starts to make sense and you want to seek the care, you could obviously go to my website. Just so everyone knows, my website is Live Without Pain. It's plural live without pains.com. There's a schedule now button if you want to schedule a session or there's a contact us button, which goes directly to my email. My email is drmitch@mitchellyass.com. You could reach me that way. It's very important to understand. So if you were to go on and you Google Dr. Mitchell Yass, you're going to get 30 pages. It's going to look like this guy has instituted this through in all countries and stuff. It's not true. I'm a singular guy. People have called me and said, could I get Dr. Yass’ assistant or could I speak to the administrator regarding insurances? And I'll be like, it's me. I'm talking to Dr. Yass. And I'm like, yeah, it's me. That's my cell phone, right?

Matt Feret:

Yeah, I think I read recently Susie Orman. It's like, it's like her. That's it. She doesn't have a team of 200 people behind her. It's just her.

Dr. Mitchell Yass:

It's wonderful to be that person and you want to have accessibility. And my point is that if you seek me through phone, email, or text, I promise you, you are getting a response. Remember what I said? Very important to understand. I am being used by God. My responsibility is to be. I used to think to myself, I got this understanding and now my job is to go out and seek people to get this method to them. For them it's just the opposite. You've got 40 years of hundreds of millions of people in pain seeking. I need to be there for them. They're out seeking me. So when they seek me, I have no choice but to make sure they get the information they need. So that's kind of my general premise on how I think people should start thinking about their pain and what they can do to take responsibility and see maybe those guys aren't so great at resolving pain and maybe there is an alternative that's outside the realm of the norm.

Dr. Mitchell Yass’ Perspective on Traditional Pain Management Medication [55:59]

Matt Feret:

Dr. Mitch, this has been great. I mean we could talk about this for a long time. We didn't even get into the whole pain management piece. I guess we kind of did, we walked around it. But without going on for another hour, let me ask my wrap question, which is, what about pain and specifically about you and the way you do things? Did we not cover that? We should have?

Dr. Mitchell Yass

Well, I kind of want to just briefly talk about what you are talking about. So in the nineties what happened was they developed these facilities called pain management facilities.

Matt Feret:

Yeah, you said Florida. And I immediately went, oh, pain management centers.

Dr. Mitchell Yass:

Sure, sure. And I mean there were other places where West Virginia was the place where it was kind of supposedly the epicenter of the opioid epidemic. But I want people to understand very carefully, there are these places popping up now all over the place and they're called pain and spine and pain facilities. They're everywhere. Now don't be confused. That sounds very classy, very professional. That's just code for pain management. That's just code for pain management. If you go to a spine and pain facility, you're getting epidural nerve blocks, opioids. There's something called radiofrequency ablation, which is icing your nerves, which is completely medieval. I mean that is medieval stuff, but it's happening out there. So if someone in a professional light trying to convince you the best that could be done for you is some form of pain management, you must understand that is the medical system putting the white flag up, they're wasting the white flag to you. And they're saying, we give up. We don't know how to find the cause of your pain. At best we could do is mask your symptoms and in them trying to mask it without establishing, cause you better understand you're looking at pain indefinitely. So you need to, if that's where you are, you've got to take it upon yourself to step back and say to yourself, well let me see if I could find somebody who is in a position to establish cause what tissues in the stress and resolve it. So that would be my answer to that. Don't accept pain. Pain management is fine in the short term while you're trying to establish cause and resolve it. But if you are not establishing, cause you're just basically leaving that person in this kind of dead zone where you're just trying to minimize their symptoms. And by the way, the anxiety associated with that going on and on creates much worse problems than the pain itself. Anxiety that develops and hopelessness and all that stuff that comes from sustained pain is much worse than the pain itself. So people need to understand. If it was me, I would not accept the idea of someone saying, okay, we're just going to try to modulate how severe the pain you experience is. But that's it for now. That's all we can do. Find someone knows how to establish cause and resolve it. And that's the Yass method for pain-free movement.

Conclusion and Final Message with Matt Feret and Dr. Mitchell Yass [59:03]

Matt Feret:

Dr. Mitch, thank you very much for doing this and I'll put up all the links on the website. I'll put up all the links on the show notes. Going back to the beginning of this, I'm glad we're doing this and I'm glad we're able to do this. And it's a pretty amazing story, what's going on in your life the last couple of months? And Godspeed, my friend. I'm really glad you're here. What a miracle. And thanks for sharing your message with us.

Dr. Mitchell Yass:

I just want people to understand we were supposed to do this a few months ago and my face was a mess. I had had some biopsies done and that tumor was huge. And come on to Matt and I'm like, man. I just don't think this is the right time. People are going to be staring at my face. What happened to this guy?

Matt Feret:

You remember what I said? I was like, man, you look like you're in a lot of pain. We're going to talk about pain management. You can see that on somebody's face. And you were on camera and you showed up on time. You didn't cancel. So I mean, hats off to you too. But yeah, you were on there and you're like, Hey man, I've had a couple of rough months. And I'm like, don't take this the wrong way, but you'll look at why don't you get better and we'll do this again.

Dr. Mitchell Yass:

And because of that I want people to know. I greatly appreciate that Matt gave me that chance and just what a good person Matt is to have allowed me to have the time to heal and then be able to spread the message that I want. Thank you, Matt.

Matt Feret:

No thanks needed at all, man. Not at all. I'm just happy you're here and thanks for sharing the message. It's been great getting to talk to you. Thanks for doing this.

Dr. Mitchell Yass:

My pleasure. I really enjoyed it. Thanks, Matt.

Matt Feret:

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